Wednesday, April 13, 2016

North Node in Virgo: The Efficient Soul

***Also for if you have the North Node in the 6th House

With your North Node in Virgo, this is a lifetime that’s about getting your stuff together. Your greatest potential lies in being able to develop your latent powers of organization, finding a clear sense of order in the midst of a lot of chaos. When the North Node is in any of the Earth signs, the process of growing on a spiritual level is sort of a contradiction. Through this placement, your spiritual growth comes from being able to handle reality and practicality. What your soul really wants is to just roll up its sleeves and get things done. This is why the greatest soul-expression for you is one that’s effective, productive, and specific. You are the efficient soul, feeling deeply fulfilled by any sort of system, method, or checklist that will aid you in your work from day to day.

In order to realize this potential within, you have to overcome the pitfalls of your South Node. The Virgo North Node gives you a Pisces South Node. So, there is a part of you that is not organized at all. In fact, it’s much easier and more comfortable for you to just drift along in a very nonlinear fashion, not trying too much to make logical sense out of anything or anyone, including yourself. Now, the good thing about having the South Node in Pisces is that you are blessed with an innately spiritual, metaphysical mentality. You already know the meaning of blissful acceptance, allowing the Universe, God, Goddess, or whatever Greater Force you believe in (and the vast majority of Pisces South Node folks believe in some Higher Power) have its way. You are capable of amazing inner peace, as a result. You are also innately compassionate toward other people, easily putting yourself in their shoes, and naturally imaginative in ways that can give life a very magical feeling.

The issues you encounter, though, involve being so intent on surrendering your will to something or someone bigger than yourself that you forget or neglect to do the work you need to do. Thanks to the Pisces South Node, you’re so busy letting go that it’s all too easy for you to lose your grip altogether. This doesn’t just mean having unrealistic or delusional expectations. It can also mean becoming increasingly irrational, to the point where you feel like you’re losing your mind. These are all problems that have stemmed from your past life. The South Node represents the most recent or a very recent past life and the things that weren’t resolved during that time. I usually say that many people don’t believe in past lives. But, if you have the South Node in Pisces, you most likely not only believe in past lives but feel profoundly connected to yours. Pisces is a very karmic sign and, with the South Node in this sign, you live out your past-life karma in a very powerful way.

You were a highly spiritual being in your past life. A very common interpretation of this placement is a past life as a nun or a monk. Now, of course, you could have lived in a convent or a monastery. But, it’s more complex than that. You might have just been someone who was very dedicated to their spiritual life in this former existence, in a way that made you not feel of this world. Pisces South Node folks usually struggled with an attitude of persecution, isolation, and/or self-victimization in their past life. It was so easy for you to feel like a victim who nobody cared about in a harsh, cold world. However, you continued to serve as an unworldly example by being very empathetic, forgiving, and accepting. Maybe you were constantly taken advantage of because of that, only repeating the cycle of feeling like a victim. Little did you realize, though, that this was your own doing. You were only a victim in this life because you chose to be.

A past life of intentional suffering is a big theme with the Pisces South Node. Playing the role of the martyr as well as the victim, indulging in patterns of endless self-sacrifice, fueled this suffering. Somehow, you felt like you were supposed to do this. You were always supposed to be selfless and kind and unconditionally loving. But, this mindset made you fail to create strong boundaries, for others as well as for yourself. Just as you might have been terribly deceived and taken advantage of, you also could be very deceptive and a sponge toward others. Because you never really got your act together, you were always someone who was in need, taking the charity of other people in one way or another. Instead of learning to help yourself, you were more than willing to be helped, particularly because you never knew how to insist that others help themselves, either.

This placement also typically shows someone who was an artist in their past life. You might have made it a profession or it might have just been a private hobby. Either way, it only aided your ability to completely get lost in your fantasies. Pisces South Node people were often the typical tortured artists in their former life. While you possessed exceptional talent and vision, your giftedness ended up haunting you and causing you self-destruction. You could’ve become a drug addict or an alcoholic, too sensitive to handle your problems without self-medicating. You could’ve allowed your vivid imagination to make you highly deluded. This made you someone who became more and more removed from reality. Severe isolation could’ve resulted, as the world became too overwhelming or harsh for you, forcing you to live in your own little world. Such isolation drove you increasingly nuts, to the point of serious emotional disorders or a full-on breakdown.

All of these problems were never resolved in your past life. So, they have been carried over into this life in order to be dealt with, once and for all. More than the average person, you are particularly haunted by the weight of your past life. This karmic debt could be something you’re virtually drowning in now. These issues have also had a very powerful influence on your past in this lifetime, as well. So, when does the breakthrough moment occur when you are finally ready to embrace your North Node in Virgo? It can come from you spending so much time feeling like you’re losing your mind that you’re desperate to gain clarity and better judgment. It can be that you’re sick of feeling like life is always taking a dump on you and you want to figure out how to turn all of your problems around. It might also be that you’re tired of having such terrible boundaries and feel this yearning to be more discerning and to not have to be full of unconditional love all the time.

This is when your Virgo North Node has been awakened. Throughout your highly chaotic past, a part of you has developed within that just wants to make sense out of all of this. While it’s more of a kneejerk reaction for you to just let go and let the problem become resolved, it actually still leaves you in a state of anxiety. Focusing too much on the South Node leaves one feeling empty and dissatisfied. With the South Node in Pisces, when you stay in that state of surrender too often or for too long, then you are actually just going to feel worse. Temporary bliss may come but followed by greater worry, then growing paranoia, depression, and full-on craziness. And the trick is that the Universe has a way of denying us of what our South Node wants until we learn to develop our North Node. So, the more you try to just let go and forget your problems, the worse and worse your problems will become. This ends up building to a critical degree, leaving you stuck with a giant mess on your hands and no idea what to do.

Well, the solution is to clean up the mess! Your North Node in Virgo is the part of your soul that just wants to fix these problems you have on your hands. Due to the powerful fantasy life and deep sense of spirituality of the Pisces South Node, you have a way of thinking that things are supposed to just happen like magic. You can definitely be one of those people who believes that blessings are supposed to fall out of the sky or appear to you whenever you need them. Life doesn’t exactly work that way for any of us. But, for you, it’s definitely not going to work that way. Instead, you need to just buckle down and get real. Things are not going to happen, change, or get fixed until you put in the hard work and the practical effort. In this lifetime, you are meant to develop the side of yourself that knows how to be productive and how to work for positive results.

Accessing, expressing, and strengthening this efficient higher self will put you on the right track. Of course, there is a balance that is required with the Nodes. You are not supposed to give up your imagination and your free-flowing approach altogether. The South Node is made to be transformed, not left behind. And it’s what brings out the very best in your North Node. Unlike many people with personal planets in Virgo, your way of working hard and getting results is not going to be anal-retentive or obsessive-compulsive. The natural fluidity that you’re born with actually puts you in that magical state of flow: where you’re working so hard that it’s like you get totally lost in another world. For Virgo North Node people, work is often a positive substitute for their addictive, escapist tendencies. You can get lost in your work yet also not be a workaholic.

You will also understand how to use your gift of visualization and imagination to turn your plans into a reality. Fantasizing about doing something practical and then taking all of the necessary steps to make that practical vision happen is one of the best ways to balance out your Nodes. You’re off-track spiritually if you’re just fantasizing for the sake of fantasizing. You can get so utterly lost in your internal life than whole hours, possibly even days, pass you by without you realizing it. “Where did the time go?”, you ask, which is why it can be so easy for you to run late on a regular basis. Instead of living in a state of timelessness, you are actually supposed to be managing your time. Your soul really wants to run on a reliable, consistent schedule. Having routine in your life is going to keep you fulfilled and prevent you from stagnating into a very passive, careless state.

Disciplining yourself to use your reflective, introspective periods for something useful is the key to your growth. And yes, you might actually be an artist. A lot of Virgo North Node people are. But, even as an artist, you need to maintain a firm self-discipline. You can’t afford to be one of those artists who just lives off of inspiration and only goes with the flow. You must work really hard at it, doing something with all that imagination, soul, and intuition. It’s why North Node in Virgo artists really benefit from having formal training and also from consistently forcing themselves to practice and to master their skills. You must live by “practice makes perfect”, discovering your latent skill of working harder than three people put together in order to master a skill or deliver a service.

Through this heightened awareness, you’ll learn that if you put half the energy you put into your free time into working, you’d be able to accomplish so much more. When you talk about addictions with this placement, it doesn’t just mean drugs and alcohol, which is the tricky thing about how this energy manifests. You can be just as much of an addict when it comes to binge-watching movies or television shows, listening to music, browsing the Internet, sleeping, etc. Anything that takes you away from the present moment can become an insatiable addiction. It’s why you have to moderate these activities. It’s not that you can’t enjoy them. But, when you feel yourself gravitating toward them in order to out-run feelings, problems, or pressing realities, you have to avoid them, stop and figure out what’s actually going on.

As a person with the North Node in Virgo, you cannot be one of those people who is just content to get stuck in their feelings without finding a solution. This will definitely cause you to be a drain to others but it can also cause you to attract really draining people who just want to complain and don’t want to help themselves. Your past experience of dealing with lost causes as well as being quite a lost cause yourself can make it tempting to just give in to them with displays of sympathy and kindness. But, you need to take a different approach. I’m not saying don’t be compassionate. Your empathy is a wonderful gift. Yet, you need to use that empathy in a practical way. Figure out how you can make the other person feel better. And I don’t just mean saying “there, there, everything will be okay.” Come up with a plan. Your higher self is a planner and you must utilize your natural intuition to guide you toward the best plan, for others’ happiness and your own.

If they are not willing to receive your help, then you have to let them go. This is how things need to change for you. Instead of constantly letting go in order to avoid your problems, you have to let go of the things and the people that will only bring more problems into your life. If you have a friend who’s so self-absorbed and needy that they monopolize your time and resources too much, just pick up the phone less when they call. Maybe you can stop speaking to them for a while or even clearly tell them, “I think we need a break.” The same thing goes for your relatives, co-workers, partners/spouses, children, the people on the subway, etc. You just give and give and give. If you stepped back and realized how much emotional energy you let people sap from you, you’d be amazed. You’ve got to set some limits! And that requires you to use your judgment.

The North Node in Virgo allows you to realize your full potential when you unlock your ability to judge people; within reason, of course. In spite of your tenderhearted feeling of oneness with humanity, you have an inner voice that can’t help but say things like, “Wow, what an asshole” or “He doesn’t seem very bright” or “She’s a very superficial person.” Since you’re more comfortable with being unconditionally accepting or loving, you can be quite horrified and uneasy with your more critical side. But, the fact is that being able to judge others is a part of your humanity. We all do it, to some degree. And you know what? It’s often necessary. Even though we shouldn’t judge other people to the point of cruelty or coldness, we do need to make objective assessments of others to figure out how to deal with them. But, if you’re too busy not only being a beacon of Love and Light but not seeing the faults of others clearly, you won’t be able to do this and you’ll be falling short of your higher self. Instead of always seeing the good in others, you sometimes need to see the bad, in order to get a clearer view of them and to deal with them in a healthier way.

Yes, no one will ever be all bad. But, your Pisces South Node’s ability to gloss over other people’s faults and wrongdoings can make you a magnet for all sorts of toxic, abusive, dysfunctional, or just plain disappointing individuals and relationships. If you can stop and say, “No, no. This is messed up”, you’ll be strengthening your acute vision. It can feel very painful to hear the stained-glass illusion you have of someone else or a situation in your life shatter. But, this is the path that you need to take in order to figure out how to deal with the person or the situation. The Virgo North Node wants to fix and to correct. But, you cannot do that unless you stop to truly figure out what needs fixing and correcting. Keeping a journal for all of your observations, ideas, and thoughts would be perfect, as well. Analysis is a wonderful skill of yours, once you take the time to develop it. Trust your intuition but not to a blind degree. Critical thinking is the way to go for you.

A wonderful intelligence results from this. Not only can you understand how to do things efficiently but you can figure out how to say them just as efficiently. You have the soul of a real intellectual, capable of communicating in very articulate, precise ways. The more you remain interested in the specifics of things, the more you will feel your brainpower being strengthened. North Node in Virgo people make for great listeners, analyzing your every word, as they are discovering their ability to figure out all the little details of things. Throughout your process of growth, you will surprise yourself with how clear of a thinker and speaker you can be. You possess a level of common-sense intelligence that can get you through each and every day with great effectiveness. Your soul’s higher level of expression will cause people to turn to you, left and right, for advice, assistance, and constructive criticism. You’ll be very fulfilled by serving people in this way, understanding that teaching a man to fish is a rather underrated, understated form of compassion. 


  1. Thank you. There were some things in this that I needed to hear.

  2. Good boundties indeed. A distinction has come up as important for me between critical thinking and doing. Doing is a kind of relational love, where as thinking, even detail thinking internally is still swimming in the water South Node. Polyvagal theory is something that has heleped e to conceptualize bow thinking shuts down the impetus for action, keeping the reptilian parasympathetic (play dead) system engaged and wearing out your unmylenatd Vagus (fight or flight regulation) ultimately the act of being in the moment, acting from good boib dries requires less thinking and a well functioning mylinated Vagus branch, our current evolution of neocortext with the ability to communicate and articulate (boudries) but ultimately not to wear the body out with thinking itself.. And to allow for more doing... Ideally with that sense of flow.

  3. Thank you for this. My north node isn't in virgo. But it is in my 6th house, in aquarius. I'm having a hard time resonating with my soul's path, since I'm a leo sun+leo asc, with my sun in the 12th house together with the south node. Im just... Having such a hard time figuring out how Im supposed to like. Live my life! Im only 25 years old though, so guess that's not uncommon.

    But thanks again, for your wise words. Your blog is such a blessing, I visit this site almost daily to check for new articles.

    1. Thank you! We actually have the same North Node. I'm an Aquarius NN, too, but mine is in the 1st. I also have my Leo Sun conjunct my Leo SN. So, yes, I definitely know that having a planet on the SN does make it more of a challenge but it also means that our SN will have even more awesome benefits, once we're balanced out by our NN's full expression.

      I'm only a year older than you but I am just figuring out how to truly live out my North Node, as well. As I tell everyone, the North Node is a growing process. So, you shouldn't expect to get everything right about it, especially when you're still very young. I think, for most people, it's not until the late 20's or early 30's that they really understand their North Node and it really takes over. So, just give yourself the time to evolve. You'll figure it out. :)

    2. Thank you for those encouraging words :)

  4. Thank you for this. I resonate with some of these words. I feel like having the north node in the 1st house with a virgo rising make things easier but at the same time I have 3 planets in the same placement as the south node. It's like I have to balance things out.

  5. My natal chart has a kite and stellium pointing to the 6th house in Sagittarius. Always wondered why the descriptions for Sag North Node never really resonated completely with me because a large revolving issue in my life has always been disorganization. This definitely helped create a more comprehensive picture of who I am and what I need to do. Thanks for the motivation!

  6. Oh this helps me understand myself, and my fears so much. I'm definitely too passive in life, having a hard Time with structure. I learned the discernment and boundaries lesson the hard way. Now I only want to help people who want help, but being strategic about moving forward in my spiritual based coaching and teaching feels so antithetical, but I'm moving so so slow. It's painful. You know, I haven't even allowed myself to visualize a bigger picture end goal, because I've been like "the universe will show me." "The right people will come." I'm such a cliche. My Virgo north node is in my ninth house. And I'm a double Sagittarius with five other planets in Sagittarius with all of them in the 12th, 11th, 10th house.. I feel like I'm basically always having to work against my innate freedom, exploring, introspective nature... I'm screwed!

  7. I am reading this around midnight.. 2:07 to be exact.. I cried the whole time I read.. next month is my birthday.. and since leo season tends to be the spiritual and go with the flow time for me (Virgo Sun)... I realized I was living my 20 years of life .. the south node kind of way.. Now I know why my life happened to be this way.. Thank you.. Now I ll try to change the situation for me������

    1. Thank You! My friends NN in Pisces also falls in the 7th house of Virgo though? (And his 6th house) Isn't this confusing to have your South node also your north node??

  8. Every sentence in this article speaks to my soul directly. I am North Node Virgo 10th house conjunct Saturn and I've been living 37 years of South Node Pisces total chaos. What you've described is totally me, I am exactly like that. But I start to sense a breakthrough after my birthday this summer. Finally... the axis starts to shift towards North Node Virgo.

    I am very well conscious of my issue but I had lots of difficulties even I knew that's the way. I've saved this article this March but I forgot it totally. Today I bumped into your blog after I sense the breakthrough. Just when I was writing this comment, I accidentally opened the app Notes where I saved this article and it fell just right on this article! Amazing isn't it? My higher self is trying to give me a message perhaps ;-)

    Thanks a lot, I really love what you wrote in the last sentence:
    "You’ll be very fulfilled by serving people in this way, understanding that teaching a man to fish is a rather underrated, understated form of compassion."

    I'll deal with it this life, once and for all ! and I'll reach this form of compassion: teaching a man to fish."

    :-) <3

  9. Hi Wayman.I have SN conjunt Neptune (2 degrees apart).NN in Gemini 9th house. This article is like description of my life.I am 34 and still not able to overcome Neptune and my SN.I am also not able to decide which profession to choose.Which is really frustrating(having sun mars and mercury conjunct MC in cancer). When I was young I wanted to help animals or become and artist,no I am totaly lost.Could you pls give me some advice?I find your articles really inspiring.How to deal with my north node when the sign is in the opposite house(Libra ascendant)? Not sure which advice I should apply for gemini NN or NN in 9h house?And what about this Neptune conjunction?I have also Gemini moon conjunct Chiron(8/9house) and Jupiter conjunct Uranus in Sagittarius opposite moon but they are fortunately too far from my NN (22degrees apart).Is there somebody with similar aspects?Best Ka

  10. I cannot begin to describe how grateful I am to have come across this article. Thank you for so eloquently explaining the answers to questions I have been asking for the past 20 years. The last year or so of my life has been dictionary definition Pisces South Node control, now I am very excited to retake the reins! I am a Virgo Sun as well, which will hopefully turbo charge my North Node into action! Thank you again!

  11. WOW. Excellent assessment of Virgo North Node and what a wonderful way of elaborating on some of the issues that I was already partially aware of. Yes! Setting boundaries, being critical, helping by teaching, and using critical thinking instead of always intuition! Yes, yes yes! This is so, so helpful and affirming for me on multiple levels. I am a Pisces south node/Virgo north node. All of this resonates so much. I have had to cut so many people out of my life, because of their draining and complaining and have finally embraced the fact that not only do I need to avoid people like that but that teaching is one of my callings because it is a practical way to help others. Also, I am an artist and have found that constantly practicing my art and trying hard to pay attention to detail in the way a I present it feels like the right path for me and has borne a lot of good outcomes. I am still trying and trying and sometimes feel very frustrated! But I realize (pretty much just now) that one of my addictions is divination (lol) which is obviously a holdover from my Pisces past life! I have spent the entire holiday this season navel gazing in fact and have realized that although I am exceedingly happy to have stumbled upon this blog, that this behavior really needs to be reigned in! Anyway, I could say a lot more, but the main thing I was to say is WOW and thank you for your insights!

  12. My friends north node in Pisces also falls in his 7tu and 6th houses. Isn't it confusing to have your South node as your north node too?

  13. Wayman, so articulate, my brother, appreciate your significant words! Question, I'm confused in how to move forward with the idea of a north node being [sign] and north node being in [# house]. I am north node Gemini/6th House. Is one truer than the other, are they both true, do they join forces. Both communicate true but looking for clarity in usage. Thank you Wayman!

    - Jason

  14. Jeez. I have north node in virgo, MC in pisces, R mars in virgo, lilithe in virgo. + Dom Saturn. I'm living opposite way of virgo. I know karma will catch me up

  15. wow this just opened my eyes so much about myself, also been feeling the shift from pisces to virgo, just found out my north node is in virgo...i'm also a pisces with moon in pisces, so the dragging from the waters is very intense, but deep down I know i need structure and work harder to feel good... i enjoyed this reading so much, thanks

  16. What an exceptional article! I have North Node Virgo conjunct Pluto in my first house. And my poor South Node Pisces in the seventh is conjunct Chiron. A lot to deal with! Sometimes I feel I am being eaten alive by the demands of others and it takes huge efforts to extricate myself and pursue my NN/Pluto direction. I do tend to swing from one Node to the other and over time, hope to hit the right balance. I've had the joy of "flow" in my work. Wonderful!

    Plus - the synastry with my lover has North Node Sq North Node, Chiron square Chiron...... as his second house Gemini North Node conjuncts Chiron. And my Mercury conjuncts them. Communication, pain and healing are themes with him.

  17. Definitely needed to hear this tonight! I've been fighting the more critical side of myself, trying to discipline being loving and compassionate at all times when really I need to embrace the critical side! I'm a Gemini-cancer cusp with My north node in Virgo and I have no trouble just going with the flow and being sort of detached from reality. Some days I do find myself becoming increasingly irrational and friends tell me all the time that a I'm "out there". I always embraced this about myself. Every bit of this is just so spot on. Thank you, I needed to become aware.

  18. how do I figure out what house position my north node and south node are in?

  19. Google birth chart and check astrostyle

  20. This is awesome! Thank you, thank you. I have always known about my Pisces South Node shortcomings, but never understood how to encompass my North Node gifts. This was so spot on I wondered if you were secretly following me around.

  21. Wow. I'm crying. I have the north node in Virgo. My kids' dad walked all over me because he refused to deal with his past, and although he assured me for years that he would, he didn't. My attempts to help him move on and make his life better were utterly fruitless. I loved him no matter how bad the situation was and what he put me through. I never could fully put my foot down and ended up leaving when I fell out of love.
    My husband is an alcoholic and I had to put aside my wishes of being a stay at home mom to provide for my family, because things just weren't falling together as they were "supposed to", in my mind (blessings falling from the sky lol). I had to go back to school to get skills to work to support my family myself, and when I finally put my foot down and told him to get sober or lose me, he snapped out of it and got sober. I've tried to help him rise up to his potential for years but when I set a boundary then things clicked for him. He truly loves me and wants me to be happy. We are a great team. And I have learned that I CAN support my family and have my s--- together.. sort of.. LOL

    "It can be that you’re sick of feeling like life is always taking a dump on you and you want to figure out how to turn all of your problems around. It might also be that you’re tired of having such terrible boundaries and feel this yearning to be more discerning and to not have to be full of unconditional love all the time.

    This is when your Virgo North Node has been awakened."

    BAM. Nailed it. You're really truly brilliant. I am literally in tears. (p.s. I also posted earlier that I have the Moon, Mars, Venus, and Uranus conjunct in Scorpio and the 8th house - but fortunately have the Sun, Mercury, and Pluto conjunct in Libra so I feel that the effect is somewhat tempered - but how is that for a karmic life?! I'm so tired. LOL)

  22. God bless your beautiful soul for taking the time to write this. And as a Pisces south node, I pray that angels gift you with all the amazing things you’re heart desires. I am so very grateful to you. Peace and blessings.

  23. art and commerce ( blended ) is where its at with this placement ,

  24. I just had an irrational SN episode earlier, yesterday. I don't know if people with 6th house NN would ever admit this, but this last year was crucial for me in the nodal expression area. My escapism periods are becoming more irrational each day that goes by, proving me each time that the Universe is no longer supporting this behaviour. I came to a point that every experience away from reality makes me awkwardly paranoid, anxious, self-doubting, low on self esteem to the point that i think i mean nothing to anyone and i am a worthless pathetic piece of nothing who cannot do anything, deserves nothing or has no physical or inner likeable qualities. In such moments i cannot distinguish what's real and what the hell my mind developed and is where i get the scary conclusion that i am going insane.
    This is frightening - losing my mind. Not to mention my time management problems, not being able to be on time, the lack pf saying no, getting to feel like a victim and much more that i live on a regularly basis.
    Although i observed that the less i delve inside my mind and the more i do everyday stuff is a great comfort for my sanity and soul, i still cannot break free completely of this SN behaviour. I tend to overdo one or the other of the Nodes. I cannot totally escape the SN.
    On the other hand, i understood some painful facts about Nodes and by this i mainly refer to the SN. The importance it places regards the house is posited in more than the sign. I always resonate with the Pisces/12th house placement, though it is posited in Leo; my Leo tendencies are not as awful as they are depicted, nor do they manifest as strongly as the placement. Another painful fact which is a paradox is in fact that the more you manifest it, the more you not get manifested that area in reality, because the SN denies it. This means that, for 12th house SN, when using any of the qualities of the 12th house ( escapism, isolation, long time travels to foreign houses, bed pleasures, relaxation, meditation) to manifest your SN, the more you have none of those qualities; isolation, relaxation and so on get you irrational, insane, tired, deny real/enjoyment of travel, deny bed pleasures/enjoyment, lowers your esteem to the point of nothing, paralyzes your faith . It's self explanatory why.
    But i do have a deep strong feeling that following NN tendencies give everything you lose by the SN placement. So far i haven't experienced this fully, but i do get glimpses of it. And it feels great to know that you are sane and you can enjoy and have everything. It builds faith and changes the way life looks. It suddenly looks positive, not in like those SN episodes where i think i'm loosing it and life is so hard and horrible on me.
    I just hope i learn or someone can show me how to get to the real percent of NN following. It scares me to see that people at 35+ are just beginning to be aware of this. I am 29 and by 35 i will get insane and in a ditch if i don't learn how to never escape into the SN (or at least escape on very rare occasions). I hope there is someone out there who knows and i do hope all of the people experiencing this will get to follow the NN.